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Almond

Weapons Revamp

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Posted (edited)

Your DarkRP Name: Chris Mango

 

Suggestion (general idea): Currently citizens in Poseidon are about as well armed as a private army, apparently within a vaguely Australian city. This obviously isn't realistic with people running around with AR's and fictiously effective body armor while only paying what is relative chump change for it all. I suggest that the weapons and items are divied around the two dealer jobs more realistically to fit an Australian setting. To make buying from a Gun Dealer more worthwhile, the Black Market Dealers items should be made illegal by default and the prices of BMD items increased.
 

Description of suggestion (expand on the idea):

I propose the items be divided up like this:

Gun Dealer (Legal by default):

  • Raging Bull - $3000
  • M1911 - $3500
  • P226 - $4000
  • Glock 20 -$4000
  • TOZ-34 -$7500
  • KS-23 -$9000
  • Remington 870 - $10,000
  • Karabiner 98 - $12,000
  • M24 - $15,000
  • M40A3 - $20,000
  • SKS - $15,000
  • FN FAL - $20,000
  • SR-25 - $25,000
  • Machete - $1000
  • DV2 - $1000
  • Attachment Kit - $2000

    Black Market Dealer (Permanently illegal):
  • Glock 20 -$5000
  • Desert Eagle - $8000
  • Remington 870 Tactical - $10,000
  • Uzi - $12,000
  • MP5A5 - $20,000
  • AK-47 - $25,000
  • AK-74 - $30,000
  • G36c - $30,000
  • M4A1 - $35,000
  • G3A3 - $35,000
  • RPK-47 - $45,000
  • M82 - $60,000 (Needs a handling nerf)
  • Kevlar - $8000
  • Bank Drill - $20,000
  • Door Charge - $100,000
  • Keypad Cracker - $15,000
  • Lockpick - $10,000
  • Police Badge - $5000
  • Volatile Waste - $60,000


As well as the listed additions to the current weapons list, some have been removed for balance and realism purposes.
Removed Weapons: M14. Famas ,OTs-33 Pernach, AK-101, Galil, L85, M3 Super, Saiga-12k, Sako RK-9, SG550.
Yes, the M3 Super is on that list, it's a point and click adventure weapon for both sides and isn't realistic to be sold to civillians or used by police. The other weapons are either state-of-the-art, esoteric weapons that shouldn't be in use by police or accessible by BMD's, or, not used by anyone and therefore taking up space.

An additional change would be lessening the amount of BMD slots to 1, obviously there shouldn't be as many illegal importers of military-grade weapons setting up shop as there is legal gun stores. The black market shouldn't operate like a free, unregulated market with competition due to the illegality and value of the goods being traded.

How it will benefit the server:
This change will improve the servers realism by making gun ownership more western instead of having everyone be able to get spec-ops grade weapons legally and in some cases cheaper than its apparently legal counterpart.

Edited by Almond
added additional suggestion concerning amount of job slots
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Posted (edited)

+1 i

Would be good, might need some further tweaking though

Edited by THE_DIZ

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Posted (edited)

I don't think any of the guns really need to be removed for "realism" reasons, we've got to remember that the guns are explicitly illegal, you don't walk around with an M16 in Australia or America so they're explicitly illegal regardless and yet different organisations definitely have their hands on them. If it exists people own it regardless of its legality. However I am definitely in favour of removing redundant weapons. The MP5 for example does the job of quick-fire kills worse than the SAKO. The only change I could really think of would be reducing its recoil even more but really it is a pointless weapons.

Pointless Guns (These are just worse versions of some weapons, useless or make little sense)
MP5A5: Above. It doesn't even do its job well compared to the SAKO.
Karabiner 98k, M14, SKS: They're all old and weak single shot weapons. They almost fit into the below catagory but unlike the below these aren't even usable. Instead these rifles could be changed to add some flavour. The Karabiner could instead be a weak sniper rifle, low fire rate, high damage and small ammo capacity. The M14 could have larger clips in the ammunition kit. The SKS can just stay where it is and be the flat "single shot", possibly reduce its recoil but there isn't really any need for change.
Uzi: Even more garbage than the MP5A5
Glock 20, P226, M1911: The glocks are Australia's law enforcement weapons of choice, unfortunately the Glock 20 is absolute garbage in game. A reduction to recoil wouldn't be amiss with this side arm. The P226 is a mostly foreign law enforcement and military grade weapon. It has already mostly fallen out of favour but an increase in damage would certainly give this weapon more usability. The M1911 is a highly distributed weapon in the world. Its an average military and occasionally civilian level pistol. An attachment for a higher ammunition capacity would help keep this weapon separated from the Glock.


Conflicting Guns: (These are nearly identical but have some minor differences)
SAKO, AK47, AK74, AK101, M4A1, G36c - They're all almost identical the SAKO only barely wins out on damage and it has good recoil. These are your typical people melters. SAKO should be more stable, AK47 should be higher damage. AK74 middle ground. AK101  Honestly it could be dropped or be the middle ground instead of the AK74, if it is kept give it higher fire rate. The M4A1 is also a very American weapon, if it was just kept in as the weapon of choice for stealth, that is fine I suppose but I see no point in it. 
The G36c? Its the weapon of choice of the Australian SRG, this should be the armoury default rather than the M4A1.
Desert Eagle and Raging Bull - They both one shot on headshot without kevlar, realistic? obviously. Balanced? Maybe. There isn't really any major distinction between the two beyond the Desert Eagle having a larger clip and reloading it all at once, the Desert is your side arm call. Provide higher damage for the raging bull but reduce reload speed, could make it decent for body shots but leave the head hunting to the Desert Eagle.
Saiga-12, M3 Super, KS23: They're all pretty much the same gun. The KS23 should be your typical lower quality average Shotgun, its not even in the Kalashnikov family like the Saiga-12, its not exactly recognisable, just keep it the same. The Saiga-12 currently has a fairly controlled spray, but I think that making this gun fire faster and tighten the spray even more could help distinguish it from the M3 Super. The M3 Super currently serves as the spamming shotgun, which is fair enough. Reducing the weapon's fire rate and possibly increase damage and damage fall off to ensure that the gun remains a close quarters weapon.
Galil and FN FAL: These two are both automatic shooting , high visibility, decent damage guns. Increase the Galil's stability and FN FAL's damage, that should be enough to distinguish the two.

Unique Guns: (These fill a specific niche)

RPK: Its mountable and melts through targets single file, good for defence definitely not as good any of the rifles offensively. No need for change.
M24: Its a sniper rifle that one shots on a head shot, has high recoil and its quite unwieldy - The classic sniper rifle in any good shooting game, reward for skill. No need for change
M82: Its a sniper rifle that one shots on any shot, has high recoil but handles well. You can blast the entire police department without using the scope, this thing is obscenely unbalanced. I've managed to get kills on 4FPS by just opening killholes out onto a street and killing raiders. A clip reduction and a damage reduction is definitely acceptable here. Very overpowered, should be changed.
Remington 870: Slow fire rate, obscene damage. You're going to want to hope you kill with the first shot because SourceTM might not let you have another. Reduce damage, increase reload speed.
Famas: It has a burst fire option that is pretty cool for conserving ammo, but other than that it isn't really interesting,. Definitely could do with either a damage buff or a fire rate buff.
TOZ-34: A low ammunition shotgun, you're going to want to hope you get the kill because this double barrel isn't going to save you if you don't.
SR-25:  Its a semi-automatic rifle, nothing particularly special but nothing too similar to other weapons. No needed change.

 

I don't think any guns particularly need to go but those in the first item list? Probably not a big loss. Removing a few of the typical rifles also isn't something that would hurt but I do believe that if we are going for a realism angle the G36c should replace the M4A1 as the "Police Weapon".

If you want to give purpose to some of the single handed weapons potentially allowing for the freaking of FearRP with the use of one handed weapons until the end of the fight could be possible. Although only if the FearRP being broken is specifically being put on you I.E someone attempting to kidnap you or mug you, a pistol or UZI is a very easy to conceal weapon. In these circumstances you wouldn't be able to raid someone already holding hostage with a single handed weapon, that would be silly. But say if you were negotiating and unable to come to a reasonable demand, you could use that weapon.

Edited by Baj
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2 hours ago, Baj said:

Removing a few of the typical rifles also isn't something that would hurt but I do believe that if we are going for a realism angle the G36c should replace the M4A1 as the "Police Weapon".

But Australian Police don't use the G36c?? I'm a bit confused how this works from a realism angle when the standard issue rifle for NSW riot squad police is still the M4 Carbine. The ADF standard issue is the F88 Steyr which is not apart of FAS:2. Either way the m4 still makes sense as the default armoury weapon whether you look at it from a police or a military perspective with the M4 still being used by both the ADF and Australian Police and not to mention countless other foreign militaries and police. The g36c is generally only widely used in non Nato european countries, especially Germany.

I do not agree with this comment.

 

7 hours ago, Almond said:

Removed Weapons: M14. Famas ,OTs-33 Pernach, AK-101, Galil, L85, M3 Super, Saiga-12k, Sako RK-9, SG550.


The Galil, Sako or SG550 should be retained in the Gun Dealer offering a lower price, lower recoil, lower damage alternative to the ak47 and a decent full auto weapon choice from the gun dealer. Overall I agree with the pretty much blanket removal of automatic weapons from the gun dealer but I think one automatic weapon (Sako, Galil, SG550) from the gun dealer should be kept but the price should be scaled up considerably.

+1 to the shuffle up with one refinement.

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I think we should make it more real by gathering parts of a gun that take time and then be able to craft it, that’s how they do it here.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Almond said:

Suggestion (general idea): Currently citizens in Poseidon are about as well armed as a private army, apparently within a vaguely Australian city. This obviously isn't realistic with people running around with AR's and fictiously effective body armor while only paying what is relative chump change for it all. I suggest that the weapons and items are divied around the two dealer jobs more realistically to fit an Australian setting. To make buying from a Gun Dealer more worthwhile, the Black Market Dealers items should be made illegal by default and the prices of BMD items increased.
...

How it will benefit the server:
This change will improve the servers realism by making gun ownership more western instead of having everyone be able to get spec-ops grade weapons legally and in some cases cheaper than its apparently legal counterpart.

I 100% agree that it's completely unrealistic how armed people are, and really, if most people were to be armed, it would be a sidearm over a massive AR. It's my understanding that there was an attempt to push the economy in this more balanced and grounded direction, but a good amount of regulars have fat wallets from the first week or so and are able to arm themselves much more effectively than most other players. I think gun prices should be higher, definitely, but what I personally see to be the big problem is people getting the money for them in the first place. It's easy to look at the people with $1m+ and say "we need to make guns expensive so they're not buying them like it's nothing," but in doing so you're potentially screwing over the players who didn't grind printers when they gave obscene amounts.

People have been complaining about gun prices, so I believe Jimmy's recently taken a big chunk out of them. I do agree that prices of shipments should be a lot higher but I don't think that this is fair on most of the playerbase unless there are more ways, and more interesting ways, to afford them, even if you're just doing stuff for NPCs or if it's more "grindy" things like mining.

2 hours ago, Hamad said:

I think we should make it more real by gathering parts of a gun that take time and then be able to craft it, that’s how they do it here.

If I'm not mistaken Jimmy has already taken a negative stance on implementing a gun crafting system. If it's to be considered, though, I do think it could provide something interesting, and possibly could tie in to bringing back mining (or something akin to what it was like previously). Gun parts could be crafted from ores either gathered in the mine or purchased from an NPC, however purchasing from the NPC costs 4x how much you can sell ores to an NPC, so players would be encouraged to sell ores to gun dealers for both parties to benefit. Perhaps something like Zero's RetroMiner could be implemented to allow players to expand and automate (to an extent) mining, build an empire, and monopolise the metal trade, perhaps turning the mines into something that gangs fight over (maybe with two mines on the map, with one less populated for new players).

I think it could be a cool way to make gun dealing more interesting, promote more player interaction, and provide a new way to make money ( ´ ω ` )

12 hours ago, Baj said:

...

Agree with pretty much everything. Basically every category of guns has one or two guns you want to buy and then everything else is pretty much ignored by anyone but new players who don't know better. I think it'd be good to simplify the catalogue a little bit, perhaps giving the option of 3–4 guns per category with clear pros and cons (one has good damage, one has low recoil, etc.) and to move the clearly good guns from the gun dealer to BMDs („• ֊ •„)

The only weapons I personally buy are Sakos and Remingtons/M3S90s, and you can get 'em (bar M3S90) from a gun dealer with kevlar. The only real need for a BMD is lockpicks and keypad crackers, which is another problem, I think:

I think one aspect that plays a part in the less frequent raiding is the price and accessibility of lockpicks and keypad crackers. Buying a shipment of either is only really viable for gangs and players who are rich enough to not care about the price, and I imagine most new-er players and regulars who don't grind can't really justify purchasing an entire shipment, not really helped by how little dealer classes are selling single weapons. I think that the store clerk should sell singles of both lockpicks and keypad crackers (perhaps for a price that makes the BMDs shipments more worth it for gangs) both making these much more accessible for players and giving store clerks something useful to sell.

I don't think that guns that're clearly worse than another (e.g. MP5A5 vs. every AR) are too bad, as long as they're still viable and offer a decent weapon to new players for a lower price uwu

Edited by Yuki ?
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It’s more realistic to sell parts such as, spring, the steel, trigger and etc. Thats how people usually do it irl so they don’t get caught. Bullets can be sold either in the F4 menu or by a bmd or gun dealer, depending on the ammo. Since everyone wants a full irl approach to DarkRP.

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10 hours ago, Thotson LFWW said:

But Australian Police don't use the G36c??

Yes they do.

10 hours ago, Thotson LFWW said:

The Galil, Sako or SG550 should be retained in the Gun Dealer offering a lower price

You seem to misunderstand the point of my suggestion. Automatic weapons should be permanently illegal for citizens, even in America they are extremely hard to acquire and from my understanding the only people allowed automatic weapons in Australia (apart from police/army) are private military contractors, which you know, wouldn't be hanging around in Triton (legally).

 

13 hours ago, Baj said:

...

A bunch of your analysis on the in-game weapons is incorrect, mainly concerning their actual firemode capabilities.
Furthermore, your proposal to remove alot of the firearms due to being 'pointless' misses the point of my suggestion. The Kar98 and SKS are meant to be low performing rifles for civillians, the P226, Glock and 1911 are all civillian weapons on the basis of their firerate and purpose. You're also suggesting that new additions to the mod should be made to balance things out such as making new attachments in the mod, which isn't realistic. Super esoteric guns like the AK-101 and SAKO shouldn't be kept in because they are extremely rare. Lastly, changing the stats on every single gun to fit some weird niche is senseless and going to be a pain in the ass to find the right balance between them all.

 

46 minutes ago, Hamad said:

It’s more realistic to sell parts such as, spring, the steel, trigger and etc. Thats how people usually do it irl so they don’t get caught. Bullets can be sold either in the F4 menu or by a bmd or gun dealer, depending on the ammo. Since everyone wants a full irl approach to DarkRP.

Yeah, I guess it is, but that's a huge change that would require a different mod and deserves its own post.

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(I added an extra part considering job slots.)

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